Re: [iwar] [anti-nato] Palestinian PP, Urgent Message (fwd)


From: Fred Cohen
From: fc@all.net
To: iwar@yahoogroups.com

Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:53:20 -0800 (PST)


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In-Reply-To:  from "Ozair" at Mar 16, 2001 12:27:46 AM
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:53:20 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [iwar] [anti-nato] Palestinian PP, Urgent Message (fwd)
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Per the message sent by Ozair:

> >>I understood that.  My point was that if they had no common enemy, they
> >>would probably fall apart on their own.

> Does this mean that Israel wants Intifada to stay in place? It is very
> logical that such a situation is needed for the coherence of coalition--
> which otherwise would fall apart on its own.

I don't think they want it as a people, but certainly some in their
government prosper by it.  I do think they would become a lot weaker in
their opposition to Palestine without it and would soon come to a point
where they moved away from their anti-Palastinian policies.  The more
the PLO fights against them, the more they must fight back and the
easier it is to identify an enemy to justify armed struggle, etc.

The US has been in just such a situation since the downfall of the
Soviet Union.  I think that is part of why Bush is trying so hard to
insight global conflict rather than quell it (if this doesn't cause a
few comments, our readership must be dead).  The US was not a real
global power until the 20th century, and during and after WWII it became
very strong because it had well defined enemies.  As the Soviet Union
withered and the Cold War ended, the US started to lose the sense of
urgency that drove it so hard before that.  I think that the current
administration may be intentionally insighting instability.  Of course
there is the old saying - never attribute to malice what can be
explained by stupidity...  (the reader is cautioned against personal
attacks on the author).

> >> ..... Christians who believe they have more in common with Jews than
> Moslems ......

> Actually if you take a peek at history (and I am not a good historian) it is
> said that Muslims fared better with Nasranees (as the Christians were
> called) than with the Jews. The Christians believe that it was the Jews who
> were instrumental in the holy hanging. And Nasranees had a serious feud with
> the Jews. However, you are right about the current situation.

During the middle ages it was worst between the Jews and Christians -
but in recent years it has changed a lot - to some extent (in my view)
because of the realization that Christianity is not the biggest religion
around.  Since the Pope started to side with Judaism (very recently)
being legitimate and the perception management against the Jews was
reduced (in addition to the Middle ages, there was the set of writings
near the end of the 19th century that ultimately influenced Hitler, etc. 
It has recently been exposed and is starting to be overcome.  Very few
well educated Christians are left with the misimpression that the Jews
killed Jesus (who was himself a Jew of course).  They have come to
realize that it was the Romans (ancient obviously).  There are still
pockets of those who believe that the Jews killed Jesus, but these are
largely dissipating.

> >> .... it tries to keep strong ties to China and Russia - figuring that
> >>if the PLO ever does get the US political system to switch there are
> >>alternatives. ...

> And you only reinforce my point that Jewish nation needs a military cover.

Indeed - I agree with you that Israel needs a large sponsor state to
survive.  They also need an immediate threat in order to retain their
current radical government.  The current government was, after all,
created largely in reaction to the increased intensity of PLO attacks. 

> >>... I think that the PLO leadership has intentionally created this
> situation to the great harm
> >>of its own people.

> I just presented a corollary above :-), but seriously, I think that both
> sides have to gain from continuing the conflict than solving it and no one
> can be said to be less than the other.

It is a horrible situation.  If both sides saw the benefits of peace and
could give a little to gain a lot, they would both prosper together.

FC

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