Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1340-992311571-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14874 invoked by uid 510); 12 Jun 2001 01:07:12 -0000 Received: from n2.groups.yahoo.com (HELO hi.egroups.com) (216.115.96.52) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 01:07:12 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1340-992311571-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 02:06:11 -0000 X-Sender: bkdelong@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 02:06:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 32637 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 02:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 02:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.49) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 02:06:09 -0000 Received: from dreadnought.pobox.com (user-2ive0h1.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.33]) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18670 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010611213949.049fc570@brain-stream.com> X-Sender: bkdelong@brain-stream.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200106120138.SAA01019@all.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010611115625.00b8e8a0@poptop.llnl.gov> From: "B.K. DeLong" <bkdelong@pobox.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:05:31 -0400 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Arab/Israeli "CyberWar" of our own making Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 06:38 PM 06/11/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Israel knows who is launching attacks from their side, and they include >reserve military officers over which they have control should they >choose to exert it. They do nothing to stop these attacks and they >clearly have the ability to do so. This is done as a matter of national >policy - whether de-facto by ignoring it or explicitly by supporting it. Oh come on, Fred. That's like saying the US knows every single kid doing a DoS attack at any given time. Hell, the NIPC takes months to find these people. What makes you think the Israeli government knows who's doing it ? >While I am here, let's talk about the US and China - same situation as >far as I can tell. Nah - I'll dispute that. I spent a lot of time on the primary Chinese-based IRC server where this action was being coordinated. I found a handful of people who could speak English and were hanging out with l1on and the "honker union of China " or HUC, ChinaEagle and Redhackers and asked them what the deal was for the 4-8 days of the defacement spree. From what I heard (multiple sources) it was a bunch of low-level script kiddies retaliating against the US for all the English-speaking hackers hitting their sites and that all the "medium to high level hackers" were staying out of the whole thing. There was rumblings towards the end of the activity that the more experienced hackers would get involved if the US kids didn't stop the heavily-racial insults that appeared on defacements of high-level Chinese government sites. I don't believe it was "government sanctioned" or ordered...but you have to remember that the Chinese train of thought is that everything is "for the government". Attrition.org became a target because they couldn't believe such a site was not US government sanctioned. Most of my thoughts are inline with this commentary (which I posted last night): http://www.attrition.org/security/commentary/cn-us-war.html The Chinese defacers I was in touch with were not reading English-based press. Yet it was quite clear the kids attacking China were and stepped up attacks in tune with the media coverage. IMNSHO, this whole incident could have been ended almost instantly if the US media did not blow it out of proportion and feed the egos of English-speaking teens. -- B.K. DeLong bkdelong@pobox.com 617.877.3271 http://www.brain-stream.com Play. http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org Potter. http://www.attrition.org Security. http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com Herb. ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-06-30 21:44:17 PDT