Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1342-992316515-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 20474 invoked by uid 510); 12 Jun 2001 02:29:10 -0000 Received: from ml.egroups.com (208.50.144.77) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 02:29:10 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1342-992316515-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 12 Jun 2001 03:28:36 -0000 X-Sender: bkdelong@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_3); 12 Jun 2001 03:28:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25065 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2001 03:28:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 12 Jun 2001 03:28:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net) (207.217.121.85) by mta3 with SMTP; 12 Jun 2001 03:28:31 -0000 Received: from dreadnought.pobox.com (dialup-63.214.77.33.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net [63.214.77.33]) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21914 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010611230849.043627f0@brain-stream.com> X-Sender: bkdelong@brain-stream.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200106120217.TAA01747@all.net> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010611213949.049fc570@brain-stream.com> From: "B.K. DeLong" <bkdelong@pobox.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:27:34 -0400 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Arab/Israeli "CyberWar" of our own making Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 07:17 PM 06/11/2001 -0700, you wrote: >The Israeli attackers are quite vocal. They appear in newspaper >interviews. They use real names in many cases. Israel has a far more >closely controlled and smaller infrastructure and for more suerveillance >capability per user than the US does. I guess what bothers me most about your claims is that you don't give any proof. If you've read articles where attackers appear in newspaper interviews and use real names then post the URL or cut and paste the article. I should note that a lot of the US defacers (including pr0phet - http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,43134,00.html) have appeared in articles and as far as we know, they're still at-large. But I will agree that there is no incentive to going after kids defacing Web sites of nations that have an unfriendly or hostile status with your country. >The US can indeed exert control over connections to Chinese sites should >it choose to do so. In addition, many of those launching these attacks >are quite open about it and are not hard to track, meet, and chat with. >They are not exactly trying to hide. Agreed. See previous comment. >Indeed, some of the attacks came from Chinese government computers. Again, the proof? Where was this publicly stated? > The >Chinese have arrested cyber criminals and have a demonstrated >surveillance capability for their Internet systems. They could stop it >if they chose to. Indeed I think that they did. Once attribution to >the Chinese government started to be asserted, the attacks cooled >rapidly. um....this April 11th Wired article tied the attacks to the Chinese government: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,42982-2,00.html And while US hackers were actively defacing Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean sites from as far back as March, the heavy activity from China didn't start until around April 29th - May 1st and petered out around May 10th. >I agree that the Us attackers have a relationship with the media that I >do not like. But I disagree about the notion that these are not related >to government policy. That last sentence confused me. You disagree with my notion that Chinese attacks on US servers are not government sanctioned? I would say it's almost definitely not government policy HOWEVER I don't think the Chinese government would lift a finger to stop the kids....but I wouldn't expect public encouragement either. -- B.K. DeLong bkdelong@pobox.com 617.877.3271 http://www.brain-stream.com Play. http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org Potter. http://www.attrition.org Security. http://www.artemisiabotanicals.com Herb. ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-06-30 21:44:17 PDT