RE: [iwar] Chinese IW

From: Leo, Ross (Ross.Leo@csoconline.com)
Date: 2001-07-25 09:48:11


Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1477-996079753-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com>
Delivered-To: fc@all.net
Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 25881 invoked by uid 510); 25 Jul 2001 15:51:49 -0000
Received: from n22.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.72) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 15:51:49 -0000
X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1477-996079753-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com
Received: from [10.1.4.56] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Jul 2001 16:49:13 -0000
X-Sender: Ross.Leo@csoconline.com
X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 25 Jul 2001 16:49:11 -0000
Received: (qmail 38230 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 16:48:24 -0000
Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 25 Jul 2001 16:48:24 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO csoc-fire1.csoconline.com) (140.169.2.142) by mta3 with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 16:48:10 -0000
Received: from csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com by csoc-fire1.csoconline.com via smtpd (for mta1.onelist.com [208.48.218.7]) with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 16:48:10 UT
Received: by csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <MRAMCQ6V>; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:46:31 -0500
Message-ID: <72222DC86846D411ABD300A0C9EB08A156FCD6@csoc-mail-box.csoconline.com>
To: "'iwar@yahoogroups.com'" <iwar@yahoogroups.com>
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
From: "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com>
Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:48:11 -0500
Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It would appear that, once again, we have invited trouble in by the front
door.
The only saving grace is that we taught them everything they know, even if
they
are using in unintended or undesirable ways against us.   Combating this
will 
major paradigm shift to mount a defense ("knowing what your enemy knows and
knowing his tactics").  What are the chances?

AOL is good software?  Unbelievable!  This is most disheartening.

Ross Leo


-----Original Message-----
From: e.r. [mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 08:54
To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW


Since we normalized relations with the PRC at any given time, we have
had over 30,000 "students in this country.  Guess what the majority of
them majored in?  Hard sciences, computer sci-nuke physics and aero
engineering.  America has trained some of China's best scientists and
engineers

And for the question asked on the 21 Club, Richard Clarke may not have
been superman were cyber-terrorism is involved, but on 21 Club Boards
members, one of the is who I know thinks AOL is the finest "software"
in the world. When I aksed him about this problem, he think if we hire
out AOL to deal with cyber-terrorism that should do the trick and he
works for the SecDEF-that is utterly sad.





--- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:
> Frankly, I have never wondered where the Chinese (or anyone else we
> consider
> a "bad guy") get their technology, virus or otherwise.  In 1998, the
> firm I
> worked for (global trader of various commodities) kept getting a
> virus
> through on-line documents from a Chinese trading partner.  After
> several
> occurrences, I phoned the partner to tell them to check out their
> systems
> and clean them.  They apologized profusely for the inconvenience -
> they
> discovered that the licenses to their Norton AV and their McAfee had
> expired, and the *.DAT updates were no longer being added!  A little
> further
> questioning (under the guise of trying to help them figure out the
> problem)
> revealed that the products had been acquired on a trip to Singapore
> since
> they could not be purchased (then) in the PRC.  The products were
> however in
> their most current international form at the time they were acquired
> (by
> whatever means).
>  
> Folks may like to think that these potentially hostile parties have
> stolen
> all the technology they currently possess.  This may be true to some
> extent,
> but what is more often the case is they simply buy it like everyone
> else.
> They may pirate it, copy it, reverse engineer it, etc, after they
> obtain a
> few legit copies, but that is no more than goes on in the US daily. 
> This is
> just another business case of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em." 
> Only this
> time its  "if you can't keep 'em from stealing it, offer to sell it
> to them
> before they steal it anyway".
> 
> IMHO:  The fact that the companies that do this facilitate
> potentially
> hostile parties ultimately learning how to compromise the systems we
> are
> trying to protect is of no particular or apparent consequence to
> them, not
> realizing that they themselves become as big a target as our labs and
> DoD
> might be.  When I bring this to their attention, the salesmen
> magnanimously
> suggest I look at it as "job security" for security types (We are a
> "type"
> now"?).
> 
> The difference today versus during the Cold War is now it is about
> dollars,
> not dogma (no great surprise).
>  
> Ross Leo
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Cohen [ mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> ]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 15:47
> To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [iwar] Chinese IW
> 
> 
> Per the message sent by JunkMail Rosenberger:
> 
> > Do you wonder where China gets all its virus technology?  Wonder no
> more!
> > They obtain it directly from U.S. antivirus firms.  Ironically,
> those same
> > U.S. antivirus firms *refuse* to supply Washington with virus
> technology
> --
> > because they don't trust the feds.  Go figure.  Read
> > http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49
> <http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49&page=1> &page=1 for details.
> 
> > Rob
> 
> Ah yes - the famous provision of details to the Chinese while keeping
> the US in the dark.  Money is the difference - of course.  Business
> is
> more powerful than government. Ever see "Rollerball"?
> 
> FC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


------------------
http://all.net/ 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Small business owners...
Tell us what you think!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/kgFolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

------------------
http://all.net/ 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:38 PDT