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From: "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com>
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 15:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought
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--- "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 6 American Presidents have worked with the Chinese and they have all
> been "played" with ease. If you approch any problem claiming to be
> the largest 3rd world country on the planet, you keep yourself below
> the radar screen. You claim to be non-threatening and you kick butt
> on
> trade, defennse and many other issues. If you act defenseless,but
> are
> slick predators, you can become the Bad Boy Nation in Eurasia.
> Exporting weapons does help. The US just looks at them as
> non-threatening, but what fools we are. They may only have a military
> that can act regionally, but in the diplomatic world, threats about
> Taiwan runs like good champaign-smoothly. When will we learn?
In the cyber world, the Chinese Secret Service runs a very effective
computer center in Bejing. As we have seen on the net, their skills
are improving-with US trained scientists- and the situation can only
get worse.
In the South China Free Trade Zone-Canton, the US, Taiwan and now to a
lesser extent, Hong Kong bankrolls things. The dieconnect is, we are
supporting Bejings policies by doing so. Democracy, I think not!
> \\
> \
> --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:\
> > It would appear that, once again, we have invited trouble in by the
> > front
> > door.
> > The only saving grace is that we taught them everything they know,
> > even if
> > they
> > are using in unintended or undesirable ways against us. Combating
> > this
> > will
> > major paradigm shift to mount a defense ("knowing what your enemy
> > knows and
> > knowing his tactics"). What are the chances?
> >
> > AOL is good software? Unbelievable! This is most disheartening.
> >
> > Ross Leo
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: e.r. [mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 08:54
> > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW
> >
> >
> > Since we normalized relations with the PRC at any given time, we
> have
> > had over 30,000 "students in this country. Guess what the majority
> > of
> > them majored in? Hard sciences, computer sci-nuke physics and aero
> > engineering. America has trained some of China's best scientists
> and
> > engineers
> >
> > And for the question asked on the 21 Club, Richard Clarke may not
> > have
> > been superman were cyber-terrorism is involved, but on 21 Club
> Boards
> > members, one of the is who I know thinks AOL is the finest
> "software"
> > in the world. When I aksed him about this problem, he think if we
> > hire
> > out AOL to deal with cyber-terrorism that should do the trick and
> he
> > works for the SecDEF-that is utterly sad.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote:
> > > Frankly, I have never wondered where the Chinese (or anyone else
> we
> > > consider
> > > a "bad guy") get their technology, virus or otherwise. In 1998,
> > the
> > > firm I
> > > worked for (global trader of various commodities) kept getting a
> > > virus
> > > through on-line documents from a Chinese trading partner. After
> > > several
> > > occurrences, I phoned the partner to tell them to check out their
> > > systems
> > > and clean them. They apologized profusely for the inconvenience
> -
> > > they
> > > discovered that the licenses to their Norton AV and their McAfee
> > had
> > > expired, and the *.DAT updates were no longer being added! A
> > little
> > > further
> > > questioning (under the guise of trying to help them figure out
> the
> > > problem)
> > > revealed that the products had been acquired on a trip to
> Singapore
> > > since
> > > they could not be purchased (then) in the PRC. The products were
> > > however in
> > > their most current international form at the time they were
> > acquired
> > > (by
> > > whatever means).
> > >
> > > Folks may like to think that these potentially hostile parties
> have
> > > stolen
> > > all the technology they currently possess. This may be true to
> > some
> > > extent,
> > > but what is more often the case is they simply buy it like
> everyone
> > > else.
> > > They may pirate it, copy it, reverse engineer it, etc, after they
> > > obtain a
> > > few legit copies, but that is no more than goes on in the US
> daily.
> >
> > > This is
> > > just another business case of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
> > > Only this
> > > time its "if you can't keep 'em from stealing it, offer to sell
> it
> > > to them
> > > before they steal it anyway".
> > >
> > > IMHO: The fact that the companies that do this facilitate
> > > potentially
> > > hostile parties ultimately learning how to compromise the systems
> > we
> > > are
> > > trying to protect is of no particular or apparent consequence to
> > > them, not
> > > realizing that they themselves become as big a target as our labs
> > and
> > > DoD
> > > might be. When I bring this to their attention, the salesmen
> > > magnanimously
> > > suggest I look at it as "job security" for security types (We are
> a
> > > "type"
> > > now"?).
> > >
> > > The difference today versus during the Cold War is now it is
> about
> > > dollars,
> > > not dogma (no great surprise).
> > >
> > > Ross Leo
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Fred Cohen [ mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> ]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 15:47
> > > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [iwar] Chinese IW
> > >
> > >
> > > Per the message sent by JunkMail Rosenberger:
> > >
> > > > Do you wonder where China gets all its virus technology?
> Wonder
> > no
> > > more!
> > > > They obtain it directly from U.S. antivirus firms. Ironically,
> > > those same
> > > > U.S. antivirus firms *refuse* to supply Washington with virus
> > > technology
> > > --
> > > > because they don't trust the feds. Go figure. Read
> > > > http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49
> > > <http://Vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=49&page=1> &page=1 for
> details.
> > >
> > > > Rob
> > >
> > > Ah yes - the famous provision of details to the Chinese while
> > keeping
> > > the US in the dark. Money is the difference - of course.
> Business
> > > is
> > > more powerful than government. Ever see "Rollerball"?
> > >
> > > FC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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