Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1513-996596978-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27754 invoked by uid 510); 31 Jul 2001 15:32:05 -0000 Received: from n32.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.82) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 15:32:05 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1513-996596978-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by hn.egroups.com with NNFMP; 31 Jul 2001 16:29:41 -0000 X-Sender: fastflyer28@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 31 Jul 2001 16:29:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 32154 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 16:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 31 Jul 2001 16:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14509.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.168) by mta3 with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 16:28:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20010731162837.4753.qmail@web14509.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.78.124.122] by web14509.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:28:37 PDT To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <72222DC86846D411ABD300A0C9EB08A156FD12@csoc-mail-box.csoconline.com> From: "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:28:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I see your point, but disagree with your evaluation of China. They work on a much lower tech and increased labor intensiveness to make up for their lack of quality. Quality has never been their strong suit. Using labor as their value added is their game. --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote: > I agree completely with your point. Their advantage is augmented, as > you > suggest, by several factors. One is the sheer numbers of potential > I-warriors at their disposal. Second is their ability to put > technology in > each of these myriad I-warriors' hands to prosecute their plan of > campaign. > Third, and most important, is the active endorsement of their > government in > supporting this effort. Add to this the seeming infinite patience > they can > exercise as they proceed. > > This scenario compares favourably to the USA/NATO balance of airpower > to > that of the former USSR - we chose the technological route, whereas > the > Soviets went with numbers. Our planes may be able to knock out 6 of > theirs, > but that doesn't matter if they put up 7 or more to each one of ours. > Ultimately they would still be flying and we would not. With the > Chinese > (and possibly others), this is definitely a numbers game. In this > case, > however, their numbers have the same technology we have. > > Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP > Director, IT Security Engineering > > "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war." Wm. Shakespeare > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: e.r. [mailto:fastflyer28@yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 22:13 > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought > > > yes, leo, but a powerfully focused and large computer network > primarily > out of bejing is what makes them a problem. Unlike western > intelligence agencies who send one highly skilled operator out to do > a > job, the Chinese are very labor intensive and car no if 5 of 6 > Iwarriors fail. If the 6th, al in seperate cells succeeds, then they > have won the day. > --- "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> wrote: > > I must agree with Fred. A lack of substantial economic resources > > simply > > creates the "Mother of Invention" for these folks. With no large > > state > > subsidies, they must get creative in their approach, that's all. > > State > > endorsement is free (with the non-monetary reward of a "Get out of > > Jail Fee" > > card for example). Those who wage IWAR have the same advantages of > > the > > stereotypical terrorist - small size, wide dispersement, ability to > > disappear into a crowd (or be invisible in the first place), and > the > > appearance of great mobility. Finding them, in any sense, is far > > more > > difficult than their hiding from us. They have a distinct > advantage > > over us > > in this way, and the sad fact is we (the US) have provided them > with > > most of > > the tools they are now using against us. > > > > Ross A. Leo > > Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP > > Director, IT Security Engineering > > > > "Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war." Wm. Shakespeare > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Fred Cohen [ mailto:fc@all.net <mailto:fc@all.net> ] > > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 07:59 > > To: iwar@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [iwar] Chinese IW-one more thought > > > > > > Per the message sent by e.r.: > > > > ... > > > Our country needs to learn that the short term notion of why > using > > the > > > policy that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" never lasts and > > > eventually comes back in our face. While Russia is still a > > problem, it > > > economic fraility limits what they can do in a strategic sense in > > the > > > IWAR world. > > > > To the contrary - it is exactly why they will use the asymetric > > advantage of the attacker today in the IWAR world. Lower cost and > > risk > > for higher potential gain - plus they have a lot of skill here. > > > > FC > > -- > > Fred Cohen at Sandia National Laboratories at tel:925-294-2087 > > fax:925-294-1225 > > Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net <http://all.net> - > > fc@all.net - > > tel/fax:925-454-0171 > > Fred Cohen - Practitioner in Residence - The University of > New > > Haven > > This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended > > to > > serve. > > PGP keys: https://all.net/pgpkeys.html > > <https://all.net/pgpkeys.html> - Have a great day!!! > > > > > > ------------------ > > http://all.net/ <http://all.net/> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > ------------------ > http://all.net/ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:38 PDT