Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1526-996674583-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7692 invoked by uid 510); 1 Aug 2001 13:05:30 -0000 Received: from n28.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.78) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 13:05:30 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1526-996674583-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.55] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Aug 2001 14:03:04 -0000 X-Sender: fastflyer28@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_2_0); 1 Aug 2001 14:03:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 39655 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 13:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by l9.egroups.com with QMQP; 1 Aug 2001 13:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web14504.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.224.67) by mta2 with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 13:51:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20010801135106.47866.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.78.122.54] by web14504.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 06:51:06 PDT To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <9k8tpi+odj6@eGroups.com> From: "e.r." <fastflyer28@yahoo.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Re: Chinese IW-one more thought Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have the final comment right on the bucks. The chinese have a long history of playing large numbers-If I were chinese I would not want the job. I'd be too replacable. Their economic "value added" is bodies. Labor intensiveness is the name of the game with them. However, that has not kept the US from training some of their best people. It was a foolish policy-in terms of numbers, at any given time albeit the numbers have decreased an a matter of US foreign policy- we have had upwards of 30.000 chinese students at good universities in America. We have caused some of this problem ourselves. The gov't of China has "Played" the last 6 administrations,and Bush is no exception. Colin Powell was on the state radio last week. When he brought up the matters of human rights, democracy and the like, no suprisingly, the translation died. While some of that happened to President Clinton, his news conference with Jiang in Bejing was live and left little room for disinformation such as this to occur. When Clinton did a taped Shanghi radio talk show, he was either mistranslated, or cut out in total. No big supprise. I just do not understand that with 30 years of diplomatic history how we keep letting the chinese disinform/propagandize play such games. The students who intend to go home and work for the PRC govt are normally intel folks. I had one as best as I can tell in an unclassified, but sensitive course. He barly spoke english and at the end of one class, a few of us noticed the end of a mic wire hanging out of his jacket. Not to creative, but it got the job done. We have trained enough CS people to form an entire cadre of chinese Iwarriors. --- ellisd@cs.ucsb.edu wrote: > --- In iwar@y..., "e.r." <fastflyer28@y...> wrote: > > Leo, the Chinese have always liked quantity over quality. > > For ex, they > > might train their DO agents a total of two weeks for one mission. > > IMHO, humint is important, but it does not analogize with sigint or > IO > very well. The tools and the expertise are more > dominant--skills and training our universities are very eager to > provide. > > > That would make me feel too replaceable. The low skill level of > > their human ops is well documented. They have gotten computer a > > bit better-with our > > help in training chinese "students". I am, however, still > > unconvienced that their IWAR crew is anything more than marginal > > quality at best. > > It only takes a few people starts to provide tools for tactical attacks.On the other hand, the Chinese would have a problem with a strategic(long term)and sustained atack against any target. But, tactical disruption can provide misdirection which would be handy even in a conventional war. Remember deception and denial of attack are tired phrases, but useful in this mode of fight. Once the few are able to provide tools, methodologies, > algorithms, etc., the computer science geeks will be able to easily > tool up to new tasks. I have a Chinese colleague at school (a fellow > > Ph.D. student in computer security) and I have every confidence that > there is nothing that I know that he could not also learn > (alright--maybe not a very high lower bound:). > True, but his equipment will never be as good as yours and hence will always be half a step behind you-if our job is done well. > > Does notpreclude then from going high quantity to solve their > > problem and it becomes our problem as we are few in number with > > sorry funding. > Sure, but their funding situation is even worse and their best technology-hardware- is not indiginiously made, or a second rate reverse engineered platform > The only thing the numbers game helps with here is that the law of > large numbers is on your side: if you have enough people you will > eventually get a smart one. > > We will always have x + 1 more people on the problem than the russians can afford on the problem. I am more concerned about the Russians. They have lots of unemployed IW folks, better equipment and thus a more likely to be pproblem childrem if they can get over the chenchin situation. There is bad history for russia with chechenya(the closest thing russia has to a mafia and it has been that way way for decades). The Checheins make the old KGB -new mobsters look like kids by comparison. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Secure your servers with 128-bit SSL encryption! Grab your copy of VeriSign's FREE Guide: "Securing Your Web Site for Business." Get it Now! http://www.verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=n094442340008000 http://us.click.yahoo.com/n7RbFC/zhwCAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! 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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:38 PDT