Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2164-1001113891-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31426 invoked by uid 510); 21 Sep 2001 23:12:20 -0000 Received: from n35.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.85) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 23:12:20 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2164-1001113891-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.224] by mu.egroups.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2001 23:11:59 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 21 Sep 2001 23:11:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 77196 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2001 23:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 21 Sep 2001 23:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.82) by mta2 with SMTP; 21 Sep 2001 23:11:58 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id QAA10407 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id QAA02104 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010921154149.00b19cf0@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200109211445.HAA18521@big.all.net> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] Bus speech and some comments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 07:45 AM 9/21/01 -0700, you wrote: >Bush asked for, among other things, lots of money, a poorly defined >mission, and the right to not EVER tell our citizens what is actually >being done. He also asked for expanded intelligence powers and >lessenning of civil rights. Part of me would argue for a 10-year limit to the secrecy surrounding covert operations. This "simple rule" would not imply that "we must reveal the names and whereabouts of moles" whose operations are ongoing, of course. But if the public is to remain able to govern itself (fundamental to democracy) one must force at least the "nature", if not the "specifics" of covert operations to be made public in as timely a manner as possible. How timely? Secrecy should be maintained for operational necessity, but not for the purposes of "image", "PR", etc. (OK, I suppose my idealism is showing... :) I simply want to express my belief that, especially in a democratic society, the greatest poison to the trust the public has in government is to learn that they have been told one thing, when the truth was *fundamentally* different. The US public was largely behind the Gulf War a decade ago. More than the invasion of Kuwait (sp?) we were outraged at the reports of poison gas attacks that Saddam was said to have inflicted upon the Iraqi Kurdish populations. And yet, rightly or wrongly, a large segment of the US public harbors the suspicion that continued access to oil fields, and not concern for human suffering, was the strategic objective. A democratic society can stomach a number of "tactical lies", but "strategic lies" corrode the very foundations of democracy. ___tony___ Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Pinpoint the right security solution for your company- Learn how to add 128- bit encryption and to authenticate your web site with VeriSign's FREE guide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/JNm9_D/33_CAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:46 PDT