Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2262-1001264075-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23637 invoked by uid 510); 23 Sep 2001 16:55:24 -0000 Received: from n2.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.52) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 23 Sep 2001 16:55:24 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2262-1001264075-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.1.223] by hi.egroups.com with NNFMP; 23 Sep 2001 16:55:01 -0000 X-Sender: fc@big.all.net X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 23 Sep 2001 16:54:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 95231 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2001 16:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by 10.1.1.223 with QMQP; 23 Sep 2001 16:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO big.all.net) (65.0.156.78) by mta1 with SMTP; 23 Sep 2001 16:54:59 -0000 Received: (from fc@localhost) by big.all.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) id JAA09493 for iwar@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:54:59 -0700 Message-Id: <200109231654.JAA09493@big.all.net> To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <000301c14447$7c337b40$6301a8c0@Ozair> from "Mohammad Ozair Rasheed" at Sep 23, 2001 08:50:35 PM Organization: I'm not allowed to say X-Mailer: don't even ask X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] From: Fred Cohen <fc@all.net> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] The definition of terrorism Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Per the message sent by Mohammad Ozair Rasheed: > Fred, > Thanks again for an enlightening information on the subject. Another > conclusion arises out of this, it also means that Libya, Syria are not > terrorists. They never were as far as I can tell. The only claim has been that they supported terrorists - which perhaps makes those folks they support no longer 'terrorists' but rather government agents. The problem with this is that these governments do not want these groups associated with them officially because they will then have to bear the consequences of their actions. To clarify... Suppose I am the government of a nation-state named Giblet-Gravy and I want to terrorize the people of Chicken-Rice for political goals. I know that if I bomb Chicken-Rice they will appeal to the world community and I will risk being bombed back. If, on the other hand, I fund a secret organization called Mashed-Potato and they create thousands of paramilitary troops that are loyal to Mashed-Potato but serve my will, then I can support and house them and disclaim all responsibility for their actions, I can even say things like 'The recent actions of Mashed-Potato are deplorable, but the conditions that created them were caused by Chicken-Rice and thus it is their fault. Recognize anything here? What Bush has said is, in essence, that the states that sponsor and harbor these 'terrorists' are responsible for the actions of these terrorists. In other words, like the KGB and CIA, if we can trace them to their source, we blame them on the governments of those nation-states. This is a change, if only one of perception, in policy. It means that, in essence, Chicken-Rice (or their ally and good friend Corn) will bomb Giblet-Gravy because of the acts attributable to Mashed-Potato. Now, to bring it back to the Middle East, this roughly states that the US will start bombing and shooting up things in several Arab states. We will forget about moral issues for now, since we are talking about things like nation-states which have no morality that I can see. Because of political sensitivities, the US won't be so blunt, and the US is not likely to do carpet bombing, but rather it will be somewhat more selective in its targeting. But the concept is the same. Bush will want to claim the moral high ground and, in combination with a desire not to lose access to middle-eastern oil but a parallel desire to enrich his buddies in the oil industry, it will be a good excuse to offend a few of the countries and open up US oil drilling while keeping a few of the countries in his camp by sending them bribes (read removing trade barriers - similar to sending every American family $600 if he got elected). He may bomb Syria and certainly will bomb Iraq, but with Iran it might be a chance to open up relations, and he has already acted in concert with his 'friends' in select states. Libya has been too out of it to bother bombing for now, and most of the other places are our 'friends'. In the meanwhile, all of the regional politicians are doing their things. Arafat decided to stop the 'terrorist' bombings of Israeli civilians that he seems to claim are out of his control - except when he wants then reigned in. He is afraid that the Palestinian people will eventually realize that he is keeping them in squaller for his political and financial advantage and that the world will officially find out (surprise surprise) that he is really in charge of the folks doing the bombings in Israel. The Saudis will be careful to do everything quietly so as to not unduly offend the people in their kingdom who are, at least in some numbers, heavily opposed to Israel's existence in the holy ground of Islam. Pakistan would love to be friends with the US, but political realities make it complex, so they hedge every way they can and hope not to get assassinated. India revels at the idea of being best buddies with the US and sniping at Pakistan along the way. Lybia has been shrinking from these things ever since Ray-gun (sorry - it was irresistible given the desire of W for space-based laser defenses) had Ghadafi's family bombed. Meanwhile Israel figures this is its best shot in a long time at long-term survival, so when eyes were turned away, they went to near war with the PA, but reverted to peaceful coexistence when Arafat decided to declare a moment of peace. In the end, all of the suffering we are seeing is the direct result of the lack of open communications and negotiations on the issues at hand, not only between the parties, but with the rest of the world public and the citizens of these nation-states. If the people of all of these places had the honest facts, they would probably get rid of most of their leaders and negotiate a separate peace between the peoples. But of course this cannot happen because that would demand that those with money and power at stake yield that money and power. Thus the world is again on the brink of war and the seemingly endless cycle of violence continues. There is one dim hope. That is that some of the politicians who have supported or permitted these folks to remain for lack of options may take this as an opportunity to have the world's police (the US and UK I guess) come in and enforce law and order when they could not have done it themselves. They will pick their worst political enemies, declare them terrorist, and les slip the dogs of war on them while being able to disclaim political responsibility. Some of the targets will actually be organizations that harm rather than help people and they may perhaps be reduced in number. FC --This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve-- Fred Cohen Fred Cohen & Associates.........tel/fax:925-454-0171 fc@all.net The University of New Haven.....http://www.unhca.com/ http://all.net/ Sandia National Laboratories....tel:925-294-2087 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Pinpoint the right security solution for your company- Learn how to add 128- bit encryption and to authenticate your web site with VeriSign's FREE guide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/JNm9_D/33_CAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:48 PDT