RE: [iwar] [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.s oftware]

From: Blader Robert G DLVA (bladerrg@nswc.navy.mil)
Date: 2001-09-24 08:05:15
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From: Blader Robert G DLVA <bladerrg@nswc.navy.mil>
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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:05:15 -0400
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Subject: RE: [iwar] [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.s oftware]
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I agree Mr. Leo on this one but would like to add a observation or two.
Suppose Ellison's.  Seems to me that the "national id card" would not be
very useful at all unless it was an "international id card".  

Secondly, If I read this correctly, it said that "The system has reduced the
FBI's criminal fingerprint processing time from 45 days to less than two
hours."

Does that mean that (today at least) it would take two hours to verify each
passenger's fingerprint before they can board a plane?  

Rob Blader
Information System Assurance Office, CD2S
Naval Surface Warfare Center
(540)653-7270
bladerrg@nswc.navy.mil



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo, Ross [mailto:Ross.Leo@csoconline.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 9:04 AM
> To: 'iwar@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [iwar]
> [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.s oftware]
> 
> 
> First, I don't care if he is offering Oracle for free - I 
> don't particularly
> want to line his pockets or finance his America's cup foray 
> or any other
> Ellison plan on the flow of future revenue from Oracle 
> becoming de facto
> part of the American landscape.  Or any other such product 
> (it's almost too
> late in the Windows case)...
> 
> Second, he is dreaming (or worse) if he thinks a National Identity
> Card/Database/Tracking System can't be faked out - any system 
> invented by
> Man can be subverted by another Man, and often is.
> 
> Third, his assertion that we have little privacy left anyway 
> is not a basis
> for proceeding with his suggestion.  That is similar to 
> saying there is
> little point in having an IT Security program in place since 
> someone out
> there can and eventually will break through in spite of your 
> best efforts.
> 
> Larry Ellison is known for flagrant self-promotion, and 
> sharing his opinions
> publicly (whether we wanted them or not).  The difference 
> between previous
> occasions and this one is that before the self-aggrandizement 
> was written
> off to promoting sales of his company's products/  With this 
> comment, he has
> gone beyond marketing, and stepped into a realm of 
> ill-considered ideas
> (though grossly unoriginal, as Fred points out) that would 
> benefit only
> himself, and the enemies (external and internal) of our 
> societal structure
> and the conceptual foundation it is built upon.
> 
> Personally, I find his suggestions dangerous and in 
> extraordinarily bad
> taste.  Moreover, given that it appears obvious that he 
> stands to benefit
> more than any other party (at least initially), I regard his 
> sounding off as
> reprehensible and grossly irresponsible.
> 
> Ross A. Leo
> 
> Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP
> Director, IT Security Engineering
>     & Site Security Manager for JSC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Cohen [mailto:fc@all.net]
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 20:01
> To: iwar@onelist.com
> Subject: [iwar]
> [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.software]
> 
> 
> [FC - for those who do not know it, the Germans created national ID
> cards as a first step to association of family history to all of its
> citizens - followed shortly thereafter by the systemaic elimination of
> many of its citizens.  Now we are looking at ID cards to prevent
> identity theft, and naturally, Larry Ellison wants to own it.  But
> he also asserts that you hav eno privacy anyway.]
> 
> Oracle boss urges national ID cards, offers free software
> 
> Broaching a controversial subject that has gained visibility since the
> Sept.  11 terrorist attacks, Oracle Chairman and CEO Larry Ellison is
> calling for the United States to create a national identification card
> system -- and offering to donate the software to make it possible. 
> 
> Under Ellison's proposal, millions of Americans would be fingerprinted
> and the information would be placed on a database used by airport
> security officials to verify identities of travelers at 
> airplane gates. 
> 
> ``We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint
> digitized and embedded in the ID card,'' Ellison said in an interview
> Friday night on the evening news of KPIX-TV in San Francisco. 
> 
> ``We need a database behind that, so when you're walking into 
> an airport
> and you say that you are Larry Ellison, you take that card 
> and put it in
> a reader and you put your thumb down and that system confirms 
> that this
> is Larry Ellison,'' he said. 
> 
> `Absolutely free'
> 
> Ellison's company, Oracle, based in Redwood Shores, is the world's
> leading maker of database software.  Ellison, worth $15 billion, is
> among the world's richest people. 
> 
> ``We're quite willing to provide the software for this absolutely
> free,'' he said. 
> 
> Calls for national ID cards traditionally have been met with fierce
> resistance from civil liberties groups, who say the cards 
> would intrude
> on the privacy of Americans and allow the government to track people's
> movements. 
> 
> But Ellison said in the electronic age, little privacy is 
> left anyway. 
> 
> ``Well, this privacy you're concerned about is largely an 
> illusion,'' he
> said.  ``All you have to give up is your illusions, not any of your
> privacy.  Right now, you can go onto the Internet and get a credit
> report about your neighbor and find out where your neighbor works, how
> much they earn and if they had a late mortgage payment and 
> tons of other
> information.''
> 
> Attempts by the Mercury News to reach Ellison for further comment
> Saturday were unsuccessful.  Many questions about the proposal remain
> unanswered, such as whether foreign nationals would be 
> required to have
> a card to enter the country.  The hijackers in the Sept.  11 
> attacks are
> not believed to have been U.S.  citizens. 
> 
> In the TV interview with anchorman Hank Plante, Ellison said shoppers
> have to disclose more information at malls to buy a watch than they do
> to get on an airplane. 
> 
> ``Let me ask you.  There are two different airlines.  Airline A says
> before you board that airplane you prove you are who you say you are. 
> Airline B, no problem.  Anyone who wants the price of a 
> ticket, they can
> go on that airline.  Which airplane do you get on?''
> 
> Oracle has a longstanding relationship with the federal government. 
> Indeed, the CIA was Ellison's first customer, and the company's name
> stems from a CIA-funded project launched in the mid-1970s that sought
> better ways of storing and retrieving digital data. 
> 
> Civil libertarians said caution is needed. 
> 
> ``It strikes me as a form of overreaction to the events that we have
> experienced,'' said Robert Post, a constitutional law professor at the
> University of California-Berkeley.  ``If we allow a terrorist 
> attack to
> destroy forms of freedom that we have enjoyed, we will have given the
> victory to them.  This kind of recommendation does just that.''
> 
> Post said while such a system may catch some criminals, it could be
> hacked or faked or evaded by capable terrorists.  Nor is it clear that
> such a system would have foiled the Sept.  11 attacks, he said. 
> 
> Strong support
> 
> But polls last week show many Americans support a national ID card. 
> 
> In a survey released Wednesday by the Pew Research Center for 
> the People
> &amp; the Press, seven of 10 Americans favored a requirement that
> citizens carry a national identity card at all times to show 
> to a police
> officer upon request.  The proposal had particularly strong 
> support from
> women.  There was less support for government monitoring of telephone
> calls, e-mails and credit card purchases. 
> 
> The FBI already has an electronic fingerprint system for criminals. 
> 
> In July 1999, the FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint 
> Identification
> System became operational.  That system keeps an electronic 
> database of
> 41 million fingerprints, with prints from all 10 fingers of people who
> have been convicted of crimes. 
> 
> Faster response
> 
> The system has reduced the FBI's criminal fingerprint processing time
> from 45 days to less than two hours. 
> 
> Paul Bresson, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said Saturday that he is
> unaware of the details of Ellison's proposal and declined comment. 
> 
> Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Sen.  Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said
> that she would be interested in discussing the idea with Ellison. 
> 
> ``She does feel that we do need to make some important 
> advances in terms
> of increasing our security,'' Gantman said.  ``A lot of people have
> brought up ideas about how to create more security and she's 
> interested
> in exploring them.  She'd like to find out more.''
> 
> One group certain to fight the proposal is the American Civil 
> Liberties
> Union. 
> 
> A statement about ID cards posted on the ACLU's national Web 
> site says:
> ``A national ID card would essentially serve as an internal passport. 
> It would create an easy new tool for government surveillance and could
> be used to target critics of the government, as has happened
> periodically throughout our nation's history.''
> 
> 
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Next message: Tim Weaver: "[iwar] Oracle's asinine idea..."
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Maybe in reply to: Leo, Ross: "RE: [iwar] [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.s oftware]"
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