Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2321-1001382393-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25102 invoked by uid 510); 25 Sep 2001 01:46:59 -0000 Received: from n6.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.56) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2001 01:46:59 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2321-1001382393-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.52] by hm.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Sep 2001 01:46:33 -0000 X-Sender: azb@llnl.gov X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 25 Sep 2001 01:46:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 82016 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2001 01:46:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m8.onelist.org with QMQP; 25 Sep 2001 01:46:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-2.llnl.gov) (128.115.250.82) by mta2 with SMTP; 25 Sep 2001 01:46:27 -0000 Received: from poptop.llnl.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-2.llnl.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3/LLNL-gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id SAA03234 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from catalyst.llnl.gov (catalyst.llnl.gov [128.115.222.68]) by poptop.llnl.gov (8.8.8/LLNL-3.0.2/pop.llnl.gov-5.1) with ESMTP id SAA14992 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010924182256.00b625c0@poptop.llnl.gov> X-Sender: e048786@poptop.llnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200109231729.KAA10128@big.all.net> From: Tony Bartoletti <azb@llnl.gov> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:47:27 -0700 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] [fc:Who.is.to.blame.for.what.hapenned.and.will.happen] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some comments interspersed below At 10:29 AM 9/23/01 -0700, you wrote: > Pin the tail...! > By Tariq A.Al-Maeena, > Asharq Al Wasat, Sept. 22, 01 > >As war drums beat louder and American troops are being rushed to the >Gulf and the subcontinent, a number of disturbing questions are >beginning to emerge. Questions that point toward a stench that do not >necessarily seem to be coming out of Afghanistan. Asides from the $10 >question of who has the most to gain from all of the meaningless terror >of Sept. 11, there are other niggling pointers to a far more devious >plot than what has been reported or could be imagined. To begin with, >why did CNN use footage from 1991 showing Palestinians celebrating a >Scud attack during the Gulf War, broadcasting it as a live shot on Sept >11, 2001? Shown repeatedly on Headline News and CNN in the USA, this >footage probably inflamed more Americans and evoked anti-Arab emotions >than the attack itself. It was only moments after the attacks that >these scenes were displayed. Just how long does it take to gather a >bunch of people, abandoned and hungry and jump up and down in front of >the camera in Palestine? And did anyone notice the time zone? A >spokesman at the BBC has confirmed use of this old footage by CNN. They >have copies of such material in their film vaults. This should be solidly verifiable. If true, those responsible should spend a very long time in prison. >Then there is the mystery of the 'no-shows'; those employees who failed >to show up for work on the day of the bombings. We are talking about >thousands here. And believe me, they are not as tardy as we are in this >part of the world when it comes to attendance and punctuality. Did this >not cross anyone's minds? And what about the reports on the 5 Israelis >atop a high tower who were filming the events as they unfolded, hooting >and hollering? All we know is that they were eventually deported. How >convenient! The no-shows should be verifiable, to some degree, although most who take jobs in the WTC do not punch a timeclock. I happened to be surprised myself that casualties did not reach well into 5 figures. I wonder what the FEMA estimates for evacuation of the WTC would indicate, hypothetically, for such an attack. >All four Black Boxes were supposedly destroyed and rendered unusable. >This in spite of the fact that they are designed specifically for plane >crashes which result in insurmountable conditions...Yet one of the >hijackers' passport supposedly survives fire and heat of over 1000 >degrees Fahrenheit and is found in perfect shape? CNN reported that one >of the hijackers' passport was in the area 'around' the World Trade >Center. What kind of idiots do they take us for? First, I have heard no reports that the boxes have been found yet in the rubble, no less destroyed or useless. The "passport" question is better, but when the plane went into the building, parts of the forward compartment (flight cabin) likely were blown clear through the building and burst out the far side, possibly escaping the fire-ball produced when the wings dumped their fuel load. I imagine various body parts we scattered from the initial impact that escaped destruction in the inferno, and that would most likely include the pilots. >Aside from the idiocy of any suggestion that a passport would survive a >plane crash that is allegedly so severe it destroys the virtually >indestructible Black Box, we are also led to believe that a passport, >made of nothing but paper 'flew away' out of the hijacker's pocket, down >a few blocks from the WTC grounds. Why a few blocks away? Could it be >because Bin Laden wanted to make sure it was in a place out of >everyone's sight? See above comment. >Then there was the identifying of suspects. They threw just about every >Arab in the barrel, including one who had been dead for a couple of >years! Also included were some living folk who came out and reported >there true whereabouts. One was in his home in Jeddah, and the other >operating a flight out of Tunis. The initial reports of "suspects" include many using falsified documents. No big surprise there. >And the car found in the underground parking lot at the airport in >Boston. How convenient that Arabic material was strewn all over the >back seat for one and all to see. If Bin Laden was indeed behind all of >this, then his planning is really made up by nothing more than chumps. >And a flight handbook in Arabic? Give me a break! Talk to any flight >crew member, and they would scoff at you. Training material is always >in the language of the equipment one is training to fly on. And the >aircraft flown were assembled in Seattle! Although the "flight book in Arabic" may have been a translation made by the perpetrators, it is a suspicious finding, and I was surprised that such a "tight operation" would be so sloppy as to leave such elements behind. But then, perhaps it was not really so "tight", but simply seemed so, in comparison to our woeful performance in discovering these clues before the event. >And probably the greatest contradiction in this whole scenario is the >FBI report that two of the Arabic hijackers were involved in a bar >altercation in Florida some time before the bombings. This was over the >price of drinks. Now I've come across some fanatics, and let me assure >you that not one of them would be preparing to meet his Maker in a state >of inebriation, or with alcohol coursing through his veins. Makes the >whole concept of jihad meaningless if you ask me. Or was it simply to >draw attention to their presence, another red herring if you will? Hard to say, but it does sound "unlike" behaviors I would have expected. >Yes, something is not right here. And consider this...it was only >through the Freedom of Information Act that a couple of decades later we >came to know the real truth about some historical events. That Robert >Kennedy was at the bedside of Marilyn Monroe moments before she died. >Or that J. Edgar Hoover the then director of the FBI had advance >information on the plot to assassinate JFK, including the when and >where. > >Remember the 'rebel without a cause' that macho figure of screen actors, >Marlon Brando? Who can forget his tearful apologies to the Jews after he >was made to return to CNN and retract an earlier statement? And this >from a guy who snubbed Hollywood and the Oscars with more than a >statement! Totally lost me here... >It is understandable that the American people are upset. Rational and >humane people everywhere have similar feelings over the tragic loss of >innocent lives. But a war is being planned out based on assumptions, >suspicions, inferences, half-truths and previous incidents. If Bin >Laden is indeed guilty, then hang him. > >But before George Bush goes full out with his 'wanted-dead or alive' >posters and compounds this tragedy with more innocent blood, let the >full might of his investigate bodies dig out the real truth. Pinning >the tail on the wrong donkey would be of great disservice to the >American people, and to innocent people everywhere else. And once >again, US foreign policy may find itself falling flat on its backside! These last two paragraphs I fully agree with. Overall, an odd mixture of observations. >-Tariq A.Al-Maeena Tony Bartoletti 925-422-3881 <azb@llnl.gov> Information Operations, Warfare and Assurance Center Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Livermore, CA 94551-9900 ------------------------ Yahoo! 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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:49 PDT