Return-Path: <sentto-279987-4195-1010091960-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 [204.181.12.215] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.7.4) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 32686 invoked by uid 510); 3 Jan 2002 21:06:22 -0000 Received: from n12.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.62) by all.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 21:06:22 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-4195-1010091960-fc=all.net@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [216.115.97.164] by n12.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jan 2002 21:06:02 -0000 X-Sender: Ross.Leo@csoconline.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 3 Jan 2002 21:06:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 39315 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 21:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.167) by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jan 2002 21:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO csoc-fire1.csoconline.com) (140.169.2.142) by mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 21:06:01 -0000 Received: from csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com by csoc-fire1.csoconline.com via smtpd (for mta1.grp.snv.yahoo.com [216.115.97.167]) with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 21:06:01 UT Received: by csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <ZJGMCSPK>; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:03:33 -0600 Message-ID: <72222DC86846D411ABD300A0C9EB08A1079C3238@csoc-mail-box.csoconline.com> To: "'iwar@yahoogroups.com'" <iwar@yahoogroups.com> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) From: "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:06:04 -0600 Subject: RE: [iwar] [fc:Most.troubled.by.net.security] Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I cannot believe that this surprises you, Fred. Surely you jest, or at least exaggerate. And they will continue to work into the future. The dream of quantum computing for example, will do nothing to solve this same problem - it will simply enable the good or bad stuff to happen in a much smaller space at much higher rates of speed. The things that worked 30 years relied on the system architecture that today remains fundamentally and essentially unchanged from then. All computing relies on the same principles, and I doubt seriously that a more rigorous scientific/engineering approach will make any appreciable difference. You can make a hammer harmless, but it won't drive nails. The only way to solve this conundrum is to either change the fundamental nature of computing and programming, or change the fundamental nature of people. And rather than pass this off as resignation or lunacy, think on the matter you commented about from a more philosophically critical point of view. Technology is the same kind of two-edged sword that Damocles had - our careers bear witness to that. I have a lot more to say on this subject, but I will do that in another forum at another time. Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP Director, IT Security Engineering & Site Security Manager for JSC CSOC/Omitron - Houston "Efficient management without effective leadership is like 'straightening deck chairs on the Titanic.'" - S. Covey -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cohen [mailto:fc@all.net] Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 14:32 To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] [fc:Most.troubled.by.net.security] What amazed me is the final realization that the things that worked 30 years ago to attck systems still work today. When will this field get an engineering / scientific basis and approach? Never? FC --This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve-- Fred Cohen Fred Cohen & Associates.........tel/fax:925-454-0171 fc@all.net The University of New Haven.....http://www.unhca.com/ http://all.net/ Sandia National Laboratories....tel:925-294-2087 ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/kgFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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