Return-Path: <sentto-279987-1103-986612504-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com> Delivered-To: fc@all.net Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 21772 invoked by uid 510); 7 Apr 2001 02:02:50 -0000 Received: from f19.egroups.com (64.211.240.234) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 02:02:50 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-1103-986612504-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com Received: from [10.1.4.56] by f19.egroups.com with NNFMP; 07 Apr 2001 03:01:44 -0000 X-Sender: ozair_rasheed@geocities.com X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_1_1); 7 Apr 2001 03:01:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4319 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 03:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 7 Apr 2001 03:01:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.isd.wol.net.pk) (208.242.129.253) by mta1 with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 03:01:41 -0000 Received: from ozair (host-64-110-87-244.interpacket.net [64.110.87.244]) by mail.isd.wol.net.pk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA13608 for <iwar@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 07:54:04 +0500 (PKT) To: <iwar@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <MABBKMMMPGCGIIBCIGGHKEFMCJAA.ozair_rasheed@geocities.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <000101c0be2e$5abd43a0$1776e2d1@home> Importance: Normal From: "Ozair" <ozair_rasheed@geocities.com> Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 08:01:59 +0500 Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [iwar] RE: China virus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reading all the mail on this topic. I think that the opinions are voiced with such sentiments due to the recent Spy Plane case. And I believe that Mr. Rob has very strong negative sentiments against Chinese. Regards Ozair -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Williamson [mailto:Glenn_Williamson@ottawa.com] Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 5:13 AM To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [iwar] RE: China virus Importance: High All I think if I read carefully between Rob's words I'll figure it all out, and say to hell with anti-virus, bring on the various malicious code and we will all get by. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: Rob Rosenberger [mailto:junkmail@barnowl.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 5:17 PM To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [iwar] RE: China virus Oh, I wanted to blow the story wide open at first. I detest the Chinese regime. We off'd the Rosenbergs for this kind of stuff, you know. And I certainly wanted to revel in the irony. AV firms spit on people who distribute virus collections for profit, only to get caught distributing virus collections for profit -- promised by a low-tech communist regime known for rampant software piracy. Man, I wallow like a pig in the industry's sty. Except I couldn't nail it to an ethical violation. I detest the Chinese regime, but the whole thing fits the pattern of a pure marketing decision. China's demand for viruses, vendors' willingness to comply, CARO's desire to glue the AV cartel back together, and the individuals who made it all happen ... everything boiled down to The Almighty Dollar. I thought about blowing the story open (a) for the scoop and (b) to expose the irony. Yet if I did so, the cartel would line up as one and declare me the common enemy. On the other hand, if it festered long enough, I knew it would eventually wind up in the press *anyway*. Richard Clarke, General Eberhart, Congressman Weldon, they all fear the cyber-Chinese. You can imagine the smile on my face when Clarke said (and I quote) "oh shit!" upon learning of it. He'd only just come away from his first White House shindig with the antivirus industry, where he begged them for new ideas to protect the U.S. from Chinese viruses. I again thought about blowing the story open (a) for the scoop and (b) to make Clarke squirm. Yet again, if I did so, the cartel would line up as one and declare me the common enemy. On the other hand, if it continued to fester, I knew it would eventually wind up in the press *anyway*. Once the politicians know about it, it's just a matter of time... My silence showed the AV cartel how little I cared about their debacle from an ethical standpoint. And, of course, when it *did* blow up in the cartel's face, I could use my own silence to debunk the "omigod here comes the infowar" crowd. (Um, no offense.) Speaking of the "omigod here comes the infowar" crowd... Here's my take on the timeline of events: * 199? ???: individual AV firms start giving viruses to Chinese * 1999 May: U.S. blows up Chinese embassy by mistake * 1999 Jun: China declares cyber-war on U.S., nukes the Internet with AV-supplied superviruses * 1999 Sep: AV firms combine and start giving viruses to Chinese as a cartel rather than as individuals * 2000 Dec: White House invites AV cartel to discuss ways to stop China from nuking the Internet * 2001 Jan: White House learns AV cartel gives viruses to Chinese * 2001 Mar: Wall Street Journal exposes AV cartel for giving viruses to Chinese * 2001 Apr: China declares cyber-war on U.S. over EP-3, nukes the Internet with AV-supplied superviruses Well, okay, "1999 Jun" didn't happen. "2001 Apr" hasn't yet happened, but it MIGHT! God, I feel like I miss the Internet already. Everyone update your Chinese antivirus software. I never expected this story to blow open in the Wall Street Journal. And I'll tell you this: I didn't rat out the industry. Someone has bigger balls than mine... Rob -----Original Message----- From: sentto-279987-1092-986382505-junkmail=barnowl.com@returns.onelist.com [mailto:sentto-279987-1092-986382505-junkmail=barnowl.com@returns.onelis t.com]On Behalf Of Fred Cohen Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2001 6:08 AM To: iwar@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [iwar] RE: China virus Where have you been Rob? You haven't posted articles on this for the last year? But seriously... what specific issue are you referring to in your point? FC Per the message sent by Rob Rosenberger: > Where have you been, Fred? This has been going on since 1999 and I learned > about it months ago. Didn't you see the WSJ expose on Friday? Look for my > previous iwar email... > Rob -- Fred Cohen at Sandia National Laboratories at tel:925-294-2087 fax:925-294-1225 Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net - fc@all.net - tel/fax:925-454-0171 Fred Cohen - Practitioner in Residence - The University of New Haven This communication is confidential to the parties it is intended to serve. PGP keys: https://all.net/pgpkeys.html - Have a great day!!! ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> Find software faster. Search more than 20,000 software solutions on KnowledgeStorm. Register now and get started. http://us.click.yahoo.com/1OWqsB/yMSCAA/7f4EAA/kzAVlB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> ------------------ http://all.net/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-06-30 21:44:06 PDT