Return-Path: <sentto-279987-2288-1001336579-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com>
Delivered-To: fc@all.net
Received: from 204.181.12.215 by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.0) for fc@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 12956 invoked by uid 510); 24 Sep 2001 13:04:09 -0000
Received: from n21.groups.yahoo.com (216.115.96.71) by 204.181.12.215 with SMTP; 24 Sep 2001 13:04:09 -0000
X-eGroups-Return: sentto-279987-2288-1001336579-fc=all.net@returns.onelist.com
Received: from [10.1.1.224] by ci.egroups.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2001 13:03:47 -0000
X-Sender: Ross.Leo@csoconline.com
X-Apparently-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Received: (EGP: mail-7_3_2_2); 24 Sep 2001 13:02:59 -0000
Received: (qmail 4774 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2001 13:02:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by 10.1.1.224 with QMQP; 24 Sep 2001 13:02:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO csoc-fire1.csoconline.com) (140.169.2.142) by mta2 with SMTP; 24 Sep 2001 13:03:45 -0000
Received: from csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com by csoc-fire1.csoconline.com via smtpd (for mta1.onelist.com [208.48.218.7]) with SMTP; 24 Sep 2001 13:03:41 UT
Received: by csoc-mail-imc.csoconline.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <S5572XH0>; Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:02:34 -0500
Message-ID: <72222DC86846D411ABD300A0C9EB08A156FF29@csoc-mail-box.csoconline.com>
To: "'iwar@yahoogroups.com'" <iwar@yahoogroups.com>
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
From: "Leo, Ross" <Ross.Leo@csoconline.com>
Mailing-List: list iwar@yahoogroups.com; contact iwar-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list iwar@yahoogroups.com
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:iwar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:03:45 -0500
Reply-To: iwar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [iwar] [fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.s oftware]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
First, I don't care if he is offering Oracle for free - I don't particularly
want to line his pockets or finance his America's cup foray or any other
Ellison plan on the flow of future revenue from Oracle becoming de facto
part of the American landscape. Or any other such product (it's almost too
late in the Windows case)...
Second, he is dreaming (or worse) if he thinks a National Identity
Card/Database/Tracking System can't be faked out - any system invented by
Man can be subverted by another Man, and often is.
Third, his assertion that we have little privacy left anyway is not a basis
for proceeding with his suggestion. That is similar to saying there is
little point in having an IT Security program in place since someone out
there can and eventually will break through in spite of your best efforts.
Larry Ellison is known for flagrant self-promotion, and sharing his opinions
publicly (whether we wanted them or not). The difference between previous
occasions and this one is that before the self-aggrandizement was written
off to promoting sales of his company's products/ With this comment, he has
gone beyond marketing, and stepped into a realm of ill-considered ideas
(though grossly unoriginal, as Fred points out) that would benefit only
himself, and the enemies (external and internal) of our societal structure
and the conceptual foundation it is built upon.
Personally, I find his suggestions dangerous and in extraordinarily bad
taste. Moreover, given that it appears obvious that he stands to benefit
more than any other party (at least initially), I regard his sounding off as
reprehensible and grossly irresponsible.
Ross A. Leo
Ross A. Leo, CISSP, CBCP
Director, IT Security Engineering
& Site Security Manager for JSC
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Cohen [mailto:fc@all.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 20:01
To: iwar@onelist.com
Subject: [iwar]
[fc:Oracle.boss.urges.national.ID.cards,.offers.free.software]
[FC - for those who do not know it, the Germans created national ID
cards as a first step to association of family history to all of its
citizens - followed shortly thereafter by the systemaic elimination of
many of its citizens. Now we are looking at ID cards to prevent
identity theft, and naturally, Larry Ellison wants to own it. But
he also asserts that you hav eno privacy anyway.]
Oracle boss urges national ID cards, offers free software
Broaching a controversial subject that has gained visibility since the
Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Oracle Chairman and CEO Larry Ellison is
calling for the United States to create a national identification card
system -- and offering to donate the software to make it possible.
Under Ellison's proposal, millions of Americans would be fingerprinted
and the information would be placed on a database used by airport
security officials to verify identities of travelers at airplane gates.
``We need a national ID card with our photograph and thumbprint
digitized and embedded in the ID card,'' Ellison said in an interview
Friday night on the evening news of KPIX-TV in San Francisco.
``We need a database behind that, so when you're walking into an airport
and you say that you are Larry Ellison, you take that card and put it in
a reader and you put your thumb down and that system confirms that this
is Larry Ellison,'' he said.
`Absolutely free'
Ellison's company, Oracle, based in Redwood Shores, is the world's
leading maker of database software. Ellison, worth $15 billion, is
among the world's richest people.
``We're quite willing to provide the software for this absolutely
free,'' he said.
Calls for national ID cards traditionally have been met with fierce
resistance from civil liberties groups, who say the cards would intrude
on the privacy of Americans and allow the government to track people's
movements.
But Ellison said in the electronic age, little privacy is left anyway.
``Well, this privacy you're concerned about is largely an illusion,'' he
said. ``All you have to give up is your illusions, not any of your
privacy. Right now, you can go onto the Internet and get a credit
report about your neighbor and find out where your neighbor works, how
much they earn and if they had a late mortgage payment and tons of other
information.''
Attempts by the Mercury News to reach Ellison for further comment
Saturday were unsuccessful. Many questions about the proposal remain
unanswered, such as whether foreign nationals would be required to have
a card to enter the country. The hijackers in the Sept. 11 attacks are
not believed to have been U.S. citizens.
In the TV interview with anchorman Hank Plante, Ellison said shoppers
have to disclose more information at malls to buy a watch than they do
to get on an airplane.
``Let me ask you. There are two different airlines. Airline A says
before you board that airplane you prove you are who you say you are.
Airline B, no problem. Anyone who wants the price of a ticket, they can
go on that airline. Which airplane do you get on?''
Oracle has a longstanding relationship with the federal government.
Indeed, the CIA was Ellison's first customer, and the company's name
stems from a CIA-funded project launched in the mid-1970s that sought
better ways of storing and retrieving digital data.
Civil libertarians said caution is needed.
``It strikes me as a form of overreaction to the events that we have
experienced,'' said Robert Post, a constitutional law professor at the
University of California-Berkeley. ``If we allow a terrorist attack to
destroy forms of freedom that we have enjoyed, we will have given the
victory to them. This kind of recommendation does just that.''
Post said while such a system may catch some criminals, it could be
hacked or faked or evaded by capable terrorists. Nor is it clear that
such a system would have foiled the Sept. 11 attacks, he said.
Strong support
But polls last week show many Americans support a national ID card.
In a survey released Wednesday by the Pew Research Center for the People
& the Press, seven of 10 Americans favored a requirement that
citizens carry a national identity card at all times to show to a police
officer upon request. The proposal had particularly strong support from
women. There was less support for government monitoring of telephone
calls, e-mails and credit card purchases.
The FBI already has an electronic fingerprint system for criminals.
In July 1999, the FBI's Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification
System became operational. That system keeps an electronic database of
41 million fingerprints, with prints from all 10 fingers of people who
have been convicted of crimes.
Faster response
The system has reduced the FBI's criminal fingerprint processing time
from 45 days to less than two hours.
Paul Bresson, an FBI spokesman in Washington, said Saturday that he is
unaware of the details of Ellison's proposal and declined comment.
Howard Gantman, a spokesman for Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said
that she would be interested in discussing the idea with Ellison.
``She does feel that we do need to make some important advances in terms
of increasing our security,'' Gantman said. ``A lot of people have
brought up ideas about how to create more security and she's interested
in exploring them. She'd like to find out more.''
One group certain to fight the proposal is the American Civil Liberties
Union.
A statement about ID cards posted on the ACLU's national Web site says:
``A national ID card would essentially serve as an internal passport.
It would create an easy new tool for government surveillance and could
be used to target critics of the government, as has happened
periodically throughout our nation's history.''
------------------
http://all.net/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Pinpoint the right security solution for your company- Learn how to add 128- bit encryption and to authenticate your web site with VeriSign's FREE guide!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/JNm9_D/33_CAA/yigFAA/kgFolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
------------------
http://all.net/
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : 2001-09-29 21:08:49 PDT